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DrObvious (user #6,593) MaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper StarDiamondBronze Crown

Joined on August 20th, 2012 (2,738 days ago)

Last login was over 3 months ago

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    Weren't you the one who posted a question saying animal cruelty should be illegal? +1
    " wasn't saying everyone had to eat meat because it's tradition. I was saying it seemed traditional to some people (including me)" Okay, but my point was that tradition isn't a very compelling reason to maintain an unjust status quo. "and what does rape, murder, and x have anything to do with being vegan? That's not tradition, that's just choice, like how humans in the past chose to eat meat and animals. And that's not natural. " Rape, genocide, etc. are all perfectly normal and natural human behaviors. Maybe they've become less acceptable over the past several hundred years, but they're still natural. Again, my point was that simply because something is normal, natural, or traditional does not make it good or morally permissible. "Experts may disagree, but I'm my own person for agreeing." Okay, but you have to have a good reason for agreeing. The majority of ethicists agree that eating meat is morally objectionable, and most arguments in favor of eating meat aren't taken very seriously in academia. Of course there are some moral philosophers who don't find eating meat to be morally wrong, but they have better reasons for their position than "it's traditional/natural/necessary." +1
    Most vegans like the taste of animal products, but simply choose not to purchase them because of the sheer amount of animal cruelty involved in rearing animals for food. " I just think it's natural for humans to eat meat" Appealing to nature isn't an adequate substitute for a rational argument. It's also perfectly natural to enslave other humans, rape, kill, exterminate other populations of humans, etc. But we should choose not to participate in these actions because of the amount of suffering that is inflicted. Similarly, we should choose not to buy animal products because of the amount of suffering that is inflicted on non-human animals in those industries.  
    You know, a lot of vegans like the taste of meat and animal products, but simply don't participate in buying them because of the amount of animal cruelty that is involved in the process of rearing animals for food.  
    "Why stop eating meat when it's part of the pyramid of health?" You don't need animal products to be healthy. This is a well established fact, and agreed upon by virtually every major dietetic and health organization in the world. "Yeah, go on about the killings of animals, but humans have been eating meat/animals for years" Really? Doing x is okay because humans have been doing x for years? This is an appeal to antiquity. You could just as easily say we should rape, commit genocide, enslave other humans, etc. because those behaviors are perfectly natural and traditional. "Vegan concept, to me, is stupid and unnecessary." The majority of experts would disagree. +1
    Plants aren't sentient beings.  
    I agree that veganism isn't designed with optimum health in mind, but I don't see a reason why a vegan diet can't be optimal. Here's the American Dietetic Association's position paper on vegetarian diets: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864 +1
    Well most people are fairly sedentary, or have better things to do than work out all day, but for those who are athletes or bodybuilders, it's still perfectly possible to get enough protein. Even being generous and saying vegans need 25% more protein, it's still perfectly possible to eat 20-30+% of calories, which amounts to 100-150 grams per 2,000 calories from protein if you emphasize higher protein plant foods. +1
    I didn't accuse you of having them, since everyone does, but rather that your experience probably isn't a representative sample of vegans everywhere. +1
    You don't have to get protein from soybeans, there are plenty of other good plant sources. I myself very rarely eat soyfoods. +1
    Where are you getting these numbers from? You'd only need about ~150 calories of beans to get 10 grams of protein. There plenty of protein dense plant foods, and since the average person only needs about 50 grams of protein per day I don't see why it even matters. +1
    I'm not sure how those numbers were calculated, but that doesn't seem close to the actual numbers. Like I said, no health professional advises vegans to eat several times the protein as a non-vegan for the same effect. There are some who advise eating 25% more protein, but even that may not be necessary depending upon the primary plant protein source. +1
    Do you have statistics to back that up, or is that just your personal experience (which is clouded by numerous cognitive biases)? +1
    My point was that plant foods have more than enough protein, which is a nutrient, not a food group. You can add more protein to a salad by adding plant foods high in protein like beans, seeds, nuts, meat analogues, etc. +1
    How do you know you've never met a man with a nice "bod" who's vegan? +2
    The plural of anecdote is not data. There's no evidence to suggest that vegans living in developed countries are at risk for protein deficiency, and there's certainly very little risk when a lot of high lysine foods are consumed like beans, lentils, peanuts, soyfoods, quinoa, etc. +1
    Okay that website is BS. There are two things to consider with protein: amino acid profile and bio availability. It's easy to get enough of every amino acid from eating a variety of plant foods throughout the day, including foods high in lysine like legumes. And the bio availability really isn't that different from plant foods and animal foods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_value http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score Some health experts recommend that vegans eat 25% more protein than is recommended for non-vegans, but there's no evidence that vegans need several times the protein as a meat eater. +1
    And you don't need animal products to get enough protein. The average person only needs 50 grams per day, which is very easily obtainable. You could also easily eat way more than that if you need to. +2
    You do realize that protein isn't a food, right? Virtually all foods have protein, and there are plenty of plant foods that have lots of protein. +1
    Yeah, it sounds like you haven't met any actual vegans. +3
    Why not? +1
    The only vitamin you really need to take (either from fortified foods or supplements) is b12 and maybe vitamin D, but non-vegans who live at high latitudes may also need to worry about this if they're not eating salmon or swordfish every day. +2
    You can already easily do A. You could sell the lightsaber for millions and save a lot more children.  
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