Is the Hijab something that oppresses women? (By AnonymousDuck MaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper StarDiamondGold Crown 4 years ago)

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AnonymousDuck says Question has been asked before by me but that was a few months ago and alot of people have joined since then that didn't see it,Here's the original one://www.rrrather.com/view/103703 Also my opinion:Is No,it doesn't oppress women nor should people look at it that way.Just another head covering among many.

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  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    It's her choice" there are a lot of Muslim women who do not wear the hijab.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Zaalzar MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Illinois, United States
    It's a cultural thing, but I'm in favor of people choosing what to wear and having conventions like that be more niche than religious.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    RareWolf27 MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Kentucky, United States
    Ok, if they choose to wear it and want then no. But if they are forced to, which in several countries they are, then yes it is oppressive.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    oops other one. I was thinking of the murkaba.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    what about the merkaba?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Wait not the merkaba. That thing that cover's a woman's body completely.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    Niqab? no that doesn't oppress anyone lol explain why you think it does though..
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +3
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    It's a bit of nut actually. I mean, they do ideally wear it out of free will, but at the same time, they are expected to, and indeed told to wear it by their religious texts.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    soo how is someone obeying a religious text oppressive and not their own choice to follow it?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    If they really believe in the text, then they believe they will be punished
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    what are you trying to say? if they really believe in a text they wouldn't believe that they would get punished for no reason,there is a difference between being cruel and being just and thats for every crime.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    I have no idea of what you're on about there. What do you mean "punished for no reason"?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    I was just making sure that you aren't implying that religious texts don't say that people aren't punished for no reason,difference between a cruel God and just God.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Well, they are told to wear a hijab (or something of the sorts). Were they not to they would be breaking a rule. If you break a rule you get punished.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    uh huh,tell me more
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Maybe later, once you bring another point across.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    no i don't wanna say something that i shouldn't so you don't strawman me,i somewhat agree with you,Break the rules you get punished..or forgiven
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    what I'm missing is where expectation turns into oppression
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    "and indeed told to wear it". I made the point earlier, that if they really believe in their religious text, then they might not believe they have much of a choice. Hence the trickiness
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    here is an example, I am told to wear pants, and because of this I feel like I don't have a choice of course they are people who choose to wear pants you see where I'm going?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    No, not really. Try cleaning up your sentence and say it again.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    sorry if I can't structure my sentences properly but if you really can't read it because of that...whatever my point is how is it different from wearing pants we are expected to an't we? are kids being suppressed when their parents stop them from running around naked?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    There are some slight differences, for example (I do believe I understand your other comment now btw): it's not just some random bloke telling you to wear pants, it's god. And god has the power to punish you thoroughly, as well as a slightly higher amount of authority behind his words. Oh, also, it's not everyone expected to wear pants, it's just women. I mean, even if we come to the conclusion that they do it out of free will (due to respect for god), there will still remain a debate over whether it's oppressive to tell someone to do it. You're giving them a choice (a potentially kinda crappy one), but the one you want them to do, is exclusive to just this one social group due to your bias.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    I see what your saying but I have another example that might make my point clear. Skirts, women wearing skirts, some women like wearing skirts just as some women like wearing the Hijab. some women don't like skirts so they don't wear them same thing for the Hijab, which comes to the point wear women are pressured to wear the Hijab and believe or not some women are pressured into wearing skirts in western society(I'm not saying it's right wait for point). Okay here is the reason it's not oppressive, western people will look at the Hijab and feel its something they wouldn't want to wear and than automatically assume its the same way those wearing it feel, but in reality its their cultural thing for example like wearing clothes, you like wearing clothes don't you? why? because everyone around you is doing it, you grow up with people around you wearing clothes, same thing can be said about tribe men wearing loin cloths I'm sure you wouldnt enjoy wearing it but they do its natural
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Before I start, remember, I'm not arguing for it being oppressive, just for it being a murky area. The question is: would they wear it had they not been expected or told to? Some, sure. Everyone, no (sorta same with clothes, give you that). Let us now look past the fact that we wear clothes because it's frickin' cold outside, and focus on what you said. There are distinct differences between the two comparisons. For example, we all are expected to wear some form of garment, any kind, as long as it covers genitals and breasts. But with the hijab, it is one kind of social group, unmarried women, expected to wear a specific garment. Furthermore, let us now bring up intent. With clothes in general you're saying "wear clothes". It's not directed at any particular group (the 'all women should only wear skirts' thing is the same as the hijabs btw, so don't try to bring that up). With hijabs you're saying "this particular group must wear this". Even if they are choosing to not wear a hijab, the religious text tells, wants, and expects them to. Society's will for us all to wear clothes is unfair to nudists and the like, and the quran's will for unmarried women to wear hijabs is unfair to unmarried women.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    "we all are expected to wear some form of garment, any kind, as long as it covers genitals and breasts." that's why I gave the example of some tribes, who don't have the same views as you on what should or shouldn't be worn my main problem is that you or other people make a bigger deal about what another cultural wear while the very same things are present in western society you or other people make it seem as like a large percentage of women are forced to wear it when in fact a lot choose to wear or just don't. But really if we look at things like you everything can be seen as oppressive at the right angle. wearing clothes, owning pets, having a president, women being expected to cover their boobs when swim while men don't, but forget about that here is a question for you, are clothes oppressive?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    I'm not providing you with my view of clothing, but the general view of most civilization, as I conceive it might be, at least generally. I can of course be terribly mistaken. With that being said, let me see if I can get my previous statement through that incredibly thick skull of yours; with the hijabs it is one, and **only one** social group, not as with your tribe example, not as with your example of pants. In a tribe, they generally all wear the same from garment. With, say, my neighbouring village, they all wear pants. With say, the hijabs, it is one measly social group. This group does not even possess any unique biological features which might warrant such an exclusive targeting. And yes, yes! All things can be seen as unfair from the right light. Even the concept of democracy itself is unfair to the minority, getting their voice overturned by others.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    Im on my phone right now, ill write a reply later
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Now to your question, which has very, very little to do with what I'm attempting to convey. I fear you are projecting onto me a stance which I do not hold. The concept of clothes as it is, can be seen as unfair to those not wanting to wear clothes. But not, like with hijabs, unfair to a single social group (I keep repeating that in hope that you might finally show a sliver of understanding for my words and their ramifications). This whole thing with things being unfair is largely a murky area, for me especially, since I follow the doctrine that humans have no free will. Our actions are decided by our genes and by our surroundings. So yes, surely, our culture influences us to wear clothes as does the practicality of it, of course. Just like the muslim culture influences people to don hijabs. But, what I have been emphasising, and pointing at, and actively arguing about, is the fact the MOTHERF*CKING hijabs are exclusive to ONE group of people. Not all groups but ONE. A SINGLE ONE. Do you understand? Please tell me you do, because I am very much getting frustrated, as I am sure you can tell by my erratic behaviour and my slight favouring of longer, more complex words and explanations.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    I understand what your saying, one of your point is that the Hijab is aimed at only one group of people, females which is the same with skirts no?.than you went on to agree with my point that most things can seen as oppression, so what I dont understand is your main point? Should everything that someone can see as oppresive be stopped or is it just not right? Please just come out and say your reason like you said I have thick skull make it simple for me. (Im typing this on my phone in class so overlook the grammer)
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Evidently you do not understand. What I was stating earlier was that hijabs target one group, and therefore lay an extra level of unfairness, of bias. I touched on the subject of skirts earlier, saying that the notion that all females should wear skirts is stupid. Indeed, we have been moving away from that idea. With hijabs, there is a religious text, frozen in time, saying that all unmarried women should wear hijabs when around men from outside of the family. The idea behind hijabs, the intention, will remain the same, because it is written down, and written text does not change. All things can be seen as unfair, yes. So then we have a few options: either we try to stop these things (which is impossible), or we accept them. Just simply say "yes, it's unfair, but I don't want to try to do anything about it". That is not to say we should stop trying to put an end to things actively damaging us. I never stated we should put an end to hijabs; that is a cause which you projected onto me, you f*ckwit.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +2
    There is hijab for men too,its a dress code,you cannot say its meant for unmarried women when around other men...Look up hijab tutorial for men on youtube
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Yes, though not in the same sense. I am using hijab to refer to the shawl that is donned, in lack of a better word to describe it with.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    heheh looks like you snapped, lets start with point one you're legit saying one type of oppression is not as serious because it happens to a larger group of people which I can say makes no sense. Second something being written doesn't make it any more true than another thing being socially practiced even so there are public indecency law, which are also written but I know you will say "but this is written in a religious text" but in reality laws and its punishments are more imposed than religions ones also seemly forgetting that a large amount of women choose not wear it and another choose to, ask me how I know and I'll explain, don't beat around the bush with me I'm just a f*ckwit right? answer me are Hijabs actively damaging us? seriously you agreed everything can be oppressive, your saying we can stop them or accept it than you say we shouldn't accept them and finally say it shouldn't be ended, what even? just skip the philosophy and give a straight answer.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    My, oh, my, I really don't know how to make this any easier for you. I'm saying there is no bias if it is happening to everyone, no selective process. Then, concerning the texts, it is a religious custom. Religious customs follow the religious texts, and the religious texts are notoriously old and never change. There is no 'adding another passage to the bible'. I also brought up intent, several f*cking times. Even if everyone is not wearing hijabs, the religious text wants them to. The incentive of the religion says to do it. I am saying we have different options when it comes to how we should handle things. I am saying it comes down to a matter largely of personal taste. I never said we should end it, I never said we shouldn't. My subjective opinion is largely irrelevant, which is why I'm not bringing it up.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    There is no bias when it happening to everyone you're right but what’s your point that makes its okay? Or it’s not as serious? You just stated a fact. Dolphin made a good point which basically destroys your argument this whole time you’ve been “ hijabs target one group, and therefore lay an extra level of unfairness” so are going to ignore this or are you going to explain why it’s not the same? Wow sorry but what you just said is retarded, “Even if everyone is not wearing hijabs, the religious text wants them to.” So therefore it’s oppression right? Because it wants them to? Seriously tho I’m starting to think you don’t know what oppression is. Not to mention you overestimate the authority of religious texts, even if they don’t change people realise how stupid they are and just don’t do it but according to you they are still being oppressed.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    I came with a response to his comment, I suggest you read it. Furthermore, I'm not outright saying it's bloody worse, I'm saying it's different. If you were to look back at what I've written you'll see it says 'unfair' most of the time, not 'oppressive'. You are attempting to place arguments in my mouth again. Now, what did I bring up so many times only a deaf kindergartner could miss it? Intent. If a law was passed stating you could not speak ill of the prime minister, but no one enforced it, would it not still be a dumb law? Am I any less of a bad person because I never succeeded trying to stab you? Ask yourself the following: if a statement was to be reinforced, would the consequences from that be bad? Quick digression here, I am NOT saying they are oppressed. All I did, and all I am still doing, is trying to convey that it is a tricky subject. For many of these arguments, I am having to pick up a theoretical stance because it is that stance (I think) you are trying to attack. I might be wrong, since most of what you say is based on you misunderstanding what I am saying. You know, normally by this point, I would've gotten so far as to hear all from my opponent, and say all to him. But here, here I am still trying to explain the very basic foundations upon which my original stance relies.
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    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    No what I said to you wasn't a misunderstanding, you use English words which already have meanings and giving them your own and when I call you out on it I'm misunderstanding. And just because the law is dumb it doesn't make it oppressive if its not enforce at all, I dare you search up the definition. I'm attacking you? uh okay its not like you where swearing at me half time also you also seem to skips sections of my writing e.g the TD part. But I guess all that doesn't matter because all this time you were just trying to state the obvious "it is a tricky subject" okay, I guess there is no point to this argument then.
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    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    You're placing words in my mouth again. I said you were attacking a theoretical stance. It was a metaphor. Can I trust you know what that word means? Have you ever heard of the ethical school from which the saying 'it's the thought that counts' stem from? If you cannot understand that school of thought, then don't hold the knowledge required to see what I say. Even if one does not agree, most would've understood the reasoning. But yes, let us end this, as I am starting to question how you even know how to breathe.
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    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    sure lets end this. you can tell yourself whatever you want and be as stubborn as you want but still your only point (that wasn't wrong) is that this is a tricky subject. good job you should be proud
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    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Why should I be proud when I have failed? I set out with the goal to make you understand that yours is not the only reality. That there are different perspectives, with different outcomes and solutions. And you were stuck in your reality, with your perspective. You could not even imagine the other outcomes, or solutions.
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    4 years ago
    ico
    Idris2016 FemaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from South Australia, Australia
    okay, don't be proud
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    no, its a cultural thing
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    4 years ago
    ico +2
    so how is it oppressing?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    its not, my mouse automatically clicked while i was scrolling down
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +4
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Same can be said about arranged marriage, doesn't mean it's not unfair to the children
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    thats true
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Not at all, it is religious custom
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +2
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Let me just hear your take on this: can customs not be oppressive?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Not really
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    How come?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    If they are oppressive than it's not a custom. customs aren't meant to be oppressive
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    4 years ago
    ico +2
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    But they can, in their very nature, be oppressive. Take the way albino africans were and are treated for example
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Yes, sometimes customs can be altered to be oppressive over the course of time just as you suggest with the albino Africans but it is not so with a hijab being oppresive. That has always existed
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +2
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Just because something has "always" existed doesn't mean it's can't be oppressive. Slavery springs to mind
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    True, I was thinking more with respect to religious customs
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    4 years ago
    ico +1
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    The whole 'marrying the woman you raped' thing then?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    But its not rape if you consent and marriage without consent isn't even a part of Islam.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    We're talking religious customs, not islam specifically. And it's in the old testament, which is technically still valid within islam, though I do of course not know how much of it, or which parts of it, are overriden by the quran
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    You cannot group all religions together,Islam≠every religion or the Old testament and not the old testament isn't true according to Islam nor does the Qur'an say "follow the old testament" EDIT:no*
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    We're not trying to group them together. We are discussing **religious customs** in a broad sense. I am not declaring islam the one and only rape faith of the universe. And islam does not deny the old, nor the new testament. It does in fact also have the same prophets as those mentioned in the bible. Some muslims argue that the bible is reliable when not contradicted by the quran.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    you're not declaring Islam is the one and only rape faith but you're not proving that it even is a "rape faith" and yes the Bible does share some names in it with the Qur'an.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    I'm not trying to prove it's a rape faith! I'm merely trying to bring across the point that religious customs, **any** religious customs, can be oppressive or harmful by nature
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    You're not trying to prove it is a rape faith but just saying without evidence then,"im not saying Islam is the one and only rape faith" and also now you're saying all religious customs are the same,like you don't make any sense when you rape in the bible(religious custom) is the same as the Hijab(religious custom) So when you say that religious customs in general are harmful,you don't make any sense.
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    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Let me walk you through this very slowly: I was just attempting to make the very technical case that religious customs can be oppressive, something I perceived usmanc saying they couldn't be. I was not trying to prove anything in particular concerning islam. Just trying to make a technical case, on a technical and basic basis. You were then taking offense, so therefore I mentioned the rape faith thing as a **joke**.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    check your PM box
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    What?
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    You know, the bible passage
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Oh ok. I don't understand because I haven't read the bible
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    Cheshire MaleGold MedalSuper Star from Blekinge, Sweden
    Basically there is a passage stating that if a man rapes a woman he is then forced to marry her because no one will ever want her after that
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    I don't mind modest women, I really don't. However, I do feel like the hijab labels women as all the same. It makes it difficult to tell them apart.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    wait elaborate the thing with "labels women as all the same"
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    too TwerkinDolphin-y, didn't read
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    fack you
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    4 years ago
    ico +3
    OTAIBS MaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from Arkansas, United States
    It's a religious and/or cultural thing. It's not like they are forced to wear it (for the most part). I don't see why any people would see it as oppressing.
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico +1
    Yea well i would say some people are forced to wear it in different parts of the world but then the same thing would apply to the west with the whole "indecent exposure"
  • image
    4 years ago
    ico
    OTAIBS MaleGold MedalGold TrophySuper Star from Arkansas, United States
    Yeah